The Move From Teaching To Edtech

With Eva Brown, author of "From Teaching to Edtech: The Next Right Step

In the most recent Edtech Insiders podcast, we spoke to Eva Brown, author of “From Teaching To Edtech: The Next Right Step”. Eva was a classroom teacher for many years before transitioning into Edtech at Scholastic, HMH and most recently at Edtech startup Formative. Eva now runs Eva Brown Consulting to help transitioning teachers take the next right step in their careers.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length. The full interview can be found here.

Q: What are some of the main reasons that you are hearing from teachers about why they want to leave the classroom? 

EB: Of course, this is going to vary by teacher, but of the reasons that I'm hearing over and over, number one is exhaustion. Teachers are faced with an incredible amount of stress and are constantly being given more to do without more time. The day doesn't get longer, the week doesn't get longer, their planning time doesn't get longer. And the burnout that they're experiencing is real. 

There are also constantly new standards, more standards, new platforms, and new expectations that the students have to meet. And that change is constant. You know, here in Florida, where I live, just in the past decade, I think the standards have changed four times in the past 10 to 15 years. So just as a teacher is learning and mastering something, everything changes again, and they're not given time to really learn and focus and become an expert in those things. 

Depending on the grade level they teach, teachers might have 25 minutes a day or 45 minutes every other day to plan, but that's not quite enough time to do everything that they need to do. By nature, I think teachers are perfectionists; they care about their students, and they want to do what is right for them, and not being able to is really painful for them. 

Q: How has the pandemic accelerated or changed those reasons?

EB: One teacher friend of mine recently shared that this year is the hardest year she has ever experienced in 20 years of teaching, even harder than it was in 2020, when we all lost the fourth quarter. But she said this year is harder than even those were because there are so many interruptions happening all the time. There are teachers who have students in the classroom, but also still have students who are quarantining, who are joining from home. Sometimes their class sizes have doubled and they may have 28 in the classroom, but they're also being told to pay attention to 10, 15, 20 more online. 

On top of that, you add in the swelling mental health crisis that the pandemic brought about, and we don't have anywhere near enough mental health counselors. Our students have had a year of trauma. Another thing that she shared with me was that this year away from school has made it really hard for students to be motivated. Students didn’t didn't have a year off, but they had a lot of breaks in the last year, a lot of free passes in a way. And now this return to what's supposed to be normal is hard, because they just can't summon up the motivation to do some of the things that they know they need to do, especially at the secondary levels. 

Q: What do you recommend to a teacher who's trying to decide whether to leave the classroom or not? How can they make an informed decision?

EB: That’s a really great question, because I do think that some teachers out of desperation are just ready to jump. And Edtech is such a buzzword, so that's where they think they should jump to, but EdTech is not a good fit for everyone, nor is everyone a good fit for Edtech. So when I talk to teachers, what I really encourage them to do is to start by thinking about themselves and do a lot of reflecting on their own passions. 

In the book, each chapter ends with some reflection questions. And the first chapter is really focused on the question: “What is it that you love about teaching?” Aside from the kids, because we all love the kids- and there's no way to replace the kids. What is it that you feel like you're really good at? Is it training other people? Is it coaching other teachers and mentoring? Is it creating those lesson plans? Do you get all excited about analyzing your student data and trying to figure out what to do next? Every teacher has something that they are really passionate about outside of the students. I think it's really important to pay attention to those things and really focus on what your own passions and individual strengths are. 

What may surprise teachers is that I have this whole chapter on staying and growing right where you are, and maybe considering not leaving, but instead staying within the district. And I put that in because what I would hear a lot of teachers say is “I don't want to be a principal.” When I was teaching, I knew of several other roles that I could do, but I didn't really think about exploring those for myself. And then there were roles that I never even thought of or knew about. And so some teachers might find that staying in the district, but growing right where they are and looking at other paths for change is the best path for them. 

If they do want a change, I want to help them navigate the difference between Edtech vs. education publishing companies and help them think through where their strengths fit and what type of roles would be good for them in each of those areas. The biggest piece of advice that I give teachers when I first start talking to them is to think about their strengths and your passions because that will guide what they do next.

Q: In your book, you talk about different types of formal degrees that may open doors in both education and Edtech professions; those that would be valuable for growth within the classroom or within a school district, but also could be valuable for an edtech transition. Can you speak a little bit about that?

EB: Personally, I pursued a master's in teaching reading, because I, as a kid, I always loved reading, and what I discovered when I started teaching was I had no idea how to teach a struggling reader, because it came so easily to me. So that's why I chose the master's degree that I did. 

Had I known then what I know now I probably would have made a different choice, because there are some different degrees that I think get you a little bit further in what you're wanting to pursue. A degree in Educational Leadership is fantastic, not just for becoming a principal, but also if you want to be a consultant, being able to have that leadership background is really important. 

Curriculum and Instruction or curriculum design degrees are another area that really lend themselves well to learning and development roles. Some business roles don't really require a higher degree; for instructional design roles, you can learn some of the things right from places online like LinkedIn or Coursera. 

That's why it's really important to think about what your individual passions are. Because if you just go and do something for the sake of it looking good on the resume, you might miss what you truly love.

What role do certifications play in the job hunt?

EB: Seek out certifications at different levels. I'm a big fan of LinkedIn; the reason I use them the most is because LinkedIn as a platform is one of the two largest job aggregators in the world. Everybody's on there, looking for people and networking. What I loved about LinkedIn learning, which does have a monthly fee, but I love it, is that I could take these courses in customer success, for example, and get a certificate saying that I had taken this and post it to my LinkedIn learning feed, and it would show up on my profile, so it would show people that I'm actively learning about it, seeking different certifications. Coursera has a lot of great classes with certificates. The Association for Talent Development is another great place for those, especially for those interested in training. 

Formative has a Formative certification for teachers who are really passionate about it; people can become Formative certified teachers. I know other platforms, like Google, do this as well.

There are lots of different places where you can be an ambassador for a platform that you’re using, and teachers should really lock into that and see what they can learn about it. They should also share it with their team, because by sharing it with their team, they can talk about that on their resume. 

You recount several different roles that can make good transition roles for educators as first roles in Edtech. These are roles that are particularly useful for transitioning from one field to the other. What are some of these roles?

EB: Teachers ask me this question all the time: what's the best role for me to apply for? 

There was a while there on LinkedIn, where everybody was applying for Customer Success positions. That was the buzzword, everyone just thought “That's what I'm going to do.” 

But I keep trying to bring them back to the question “What are your strengths?” Teachers are passionate; teachers tend to be organized, they tend to be able to handle multiple things at once; there are a lot of skills that do transfer. But there is also a huge learning curve. And so for each teacher, it really involves figuring out what they want to learn. 

There are about eight different roles that I talked through in the book.

One of the roles that teachers could be great fit for, depending on their strengths, include anything involving Implementation, such as implementation specialist or implementation manager: those are the folks who are doing the onboarding and the rostering of students and usually the initial training when an Edtech product is first getting used in schools. Teachers bring some insider information for this role because they have generally used student information systems (SIS), they have used a learning management system (LMS), they have an understanding of what that's like from the teacher perspective that somebody who's never been in the classroom won't understand. So, you know, if a teacher is tech savvy and comfortable with those things that might be a great fit for them. 

The customer success role, teachers may not always fully understand what that role is. I think they think of it as a training role. It can involve training, certainly. But really that role is about understanding the balance between making the customer love the product or whatever it is that's being offered- helping them love it so much that they want to keep using it- with the goal of continued profitability for the company. I think what a lot of teachers may not fully understand is that it actually involves a little bit of a sales skill set there. Because there are difficult conversations that have to happen, the customer success folks are the ones who send the invoices for the next year. So it's important for teachers to understand that side of it. But if they're not afraid of having those conversations, and if they love helping people figure out what their goals are and how the platform might be able to help with those goals, and if they love a little bit of the competition, customer success is a great place for them. 

Then there are all the content creation roles, instructional designers, the content writers, learning and development roles. Those are great fits for teachers who are the ones on their teams who love writing new lessons and creating lessons and sharing them. I recently spoke to a teacher who she wasn't sure Edtech would want her because she is an early childhood educator and has had preschool experience her whole career. And I told her, “Do you know how few teachers there are with that experience? Your ability to write content for that preschool market is not something that a lot of people have.” So again, it's focusing on those strengths there. 

Of course, the consultant role was one I was in for a long time, and may be a great role for you if you have a few more years of experience as a teacher, possibly have been a coach and administrator of some sort. That's actually the role that I transitioned with, stepping into the Education publishing world after being a literacy coach within a district. 

Then of course, you know, people often ask about sales. A lot of people’s immediate response to that is to say “I don't want to do sales”, to which I say, “Okay, well, then let's talk about customer success and why you don't want to do sales, because it might be the same reason.” But if there's somebody who loves competition, and if they get passionate about something, and are just excited about it, that passion and that commitment to show others the value can transfer to sales. 

Teachers often say “I've never done sales.” I think we have a stereotypical negative view of salespeople that is not actually true. Teachers who are really passionate about something and have maybe gone into their admin and said “We need this.” If they've done that they've sold it, they've already done sales. 

Salespeople at my company often ask me “Why have you never done sales?” That’s because I get so passionate, and I can talk about the platform to educators in a way that makes sense to them, and makes them say “Oh, I need that. I see the value in that.” Teachers who are really passionate and can talk about it in a way that makes sense to other teachers and makes them go, “Oh, I need that” might want to consider sales.

There are also a lot of corporate trainers that are needed both within Edtech and outside. Teachers there have a lot of pedagogical knowledge that they can bring in, but I would say my advice to teachers, and to the EdTech industry as they hire teachers, is that it is very different working with adults than it is working with kids. And it's important for teachers who are used to working with children and teens that they also have an understanding of adult learning theory so that they can really bridge that gap. 

What are some other things teachers can do to stand out and hit the ground running as an applicant?

One thing I see teachers often doing on social media sites is that, out of desperation, they'll say, “Hey, take a look at my resume. I've done everything. As a teacher, I've done sales, I've done project management, I do customer success.” What I don't think they realize is that a message like that can actually come off as showing some ignorance about what those roles are. It would be similar to somebody who's worked with children in some capacity, saying they've been a teacher even if they haven’t been a teacher. 

When they ask me, I say, “Listen, don't say I teach, and therefore I've done everything that you've done, because that can backfire.” Instead, focus on what your passions are. 

If you discover that you think instructional design is going to be the right role for you, or customer success, or whatever it is, be laser focused on that particular job, learn absolutely everything you can about it, because you cannot get hired for a role if you cannot speak about that role. You have to be able to talk about that role, why you're good at it, and be able to give examples. Share why you're a good fit. 

I had a teacher ask me the other day, “Should I put on my resume that I've done customer success and then explain why I think I’ve done customer success, even though I haven't really had that role.”

I said no, because that is disingenuous; that's not true. But what you should do on your resume is focus on what you've done with adults. 

Everyone in Edtech generally knows what teachers do. They know that you're working with diverse student populations, they know you're creating lessons, they know all of that. But if you focus on what you've done with adults, that shows how you would interact as a team. 

So if you've been a part of a committee, if you've been collaboratively working with a team, what were your goals? Did you meet your goals for that committee? If you've been a team leader, focus on that. Focus on the growth that you brought to your team, if you were asked to lead a PLC and you trained everybody on a particular platform, talk about that. Look for opportunities to expand what you're doing with adults to show that on your resume. And don’t just talk about what you did. Highlight what your goals were, and show how you met or exceeded those goals.

What other advice would you have for teachers looking to transition?

The other two things that I always tell teachers who are trying to get into edtech are: first of all, anytime anyone applies for an edtech position of any type, they need to make sure that they've tested out the platform. They need to spend at least half an hour on the platform, because that is going to be something that they are looking for in an interview is to have you actually spent time looking at their platform looking at their materials. Sometimes teachers don't know that they can create a fake account to test the platform, and it's okay to do that. You don't actually have to use it with your students. 

Another thing I share about this in the book is about applicant tracking systems (ATS),which are the biggest hurdle to getting an interview. 

I share in the book about Ideal Resume, which is a website that the founder Wes Brach has created. And it really was remarkable in helping me tweak my resume. Wes and I have now teamed up and he's done webinars with me to share with teachers on how they can use this to tweak their resume (there's a recording of one of the sessions that we did on my website). Some of the advice that he gave was so counterintuitive, but it really helped with getting through that applicant tracking system. So I always recommend learning about how the applicant tracking systems work. And that I think will be a big, big help in helping them break through that crowd.

Edtech is such a vast field. For teachers who are looking to break in, how would you recommend that they make sense of the field and and decide where to set their targets?

It's really hard. In the United States alone, there are over 1300 edtech companies. That was at the start of 2021, so I can't imagine what it is now. It's gone way up. 

What I always say to those in tech is: every edtech company should be interested in hiring educators. The edtech business is really made of three sectors: education, technology, and business. In my opinion, you need all three to really make a great company. You also need great people from all three of those sectors leaning into each other to make the company a great fit for teachers.

For teachers looking for a company, again, it starts with their strengths and their area of expertise. You know, if you're a math teacher, then you are not going to want to apply to NoRedInk, which is focused on writing. 

One thing I would tell teachers is, they have to be a little bit willing to maybe not go in at the level they think they should go in at. When I was talking to recruiters, one thing they said was, “a teacher coming out of the classroom should not apply for any role that says senior on it. Because even though you may have 10 years of experience in the classroom, that 10 years of experience in the classroom does not equate to 10 years of experience in the corporate world.” And that's not a negative thing. It's the same, you know, if somebody were to be a banker for 10 years, and then become a teacher, they would be a first year teacher, and they would start at that first year salary step. I think teachers have to be willing to consider that they may need to start in a position that they didn't expect to start in. 

They may want to consider starting part time, you know, these per diem roles that are listed are often a way to get your foot in the door. Of course, it's a lot to ask to do part time work when you're teaching, but if you're really passionate about breaking into it, that is the foot in the door that can get you in. 

Should teachers always expect their salary to raise if they go into Edtech?

EB: What I found when looking for a job in Edtech was that the salaries are lower than one might expect. I think sometimes teachers think with the word technology thrown into the title of edtech, it must be higher paying. But as I share in the book, there's a lot of data in there about how the salaries may not always be what you think they're going to be. It really depends on what state you're in. 

In some states, the teacher salaries are much higher than what you would make if you move into edtech in a starting role. It's important for teachers to realize that it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to jump up the ladder, because depending on where you live, your salary as a teacher may actually be higher than you would make in some of the roles in tech.

However, one thing that is good to know about the EdTech world is that an increase in pay often happens much more quickly in the EdTech world than in teaching. The hardest role to get is the first one. From there, promotions can happen very quickly - which can result in an increased salary very quickly. That’s why taking a lower salary at first isn’t such a bad thing. It’s not going to take as long in the EdTech world to get your salary back up to where you want it to be - or even above that.

Are there any factors that teachers might look at when they're looking at a company to determine whether the company is taking the educator perspective seriously?

EB: Well, Formative, of course. I think about half of our company are former teachers, so I think I can say that for sure. 

I think that's a great thing to be asking. What I would recommend is that teachers think about what they love in the classroom, what are the products that they're using in the classroom that they love, whether it's an edtech platform or some curriculum, and then start paying attention to those companies online.

I did a lot of looking at review sites like Glassdoor and looking up the company morale for places. 

Now, some people say, “Well, you know, if somebody is going online and talking about company morale, they're probably unhappy.” To people in education, if they go on Greatschools, they might only be seeing things that are negative, but actually, what I found was that in the corporate world, on sites like Glassdoor, there was a much more balanced approach. 

I think it's important for teachers to pay attention to the products they use in their classroom; has the company been responsive to their needs? If they've written in for support, have they gotten that support they requested? If there was some promise made by the company, did  the company keep that promise? I think those are things to pay attention to, because there are some companies that will make promises, but there's something else coming down the line, and they may not be able to fulfill that thing that they said that they were going to do. 

I love working for Formative because it is a company that responds to teachers’ needs as best as we can. We can't always do everything that teachers want. But we do what we can. And I think that that makes us stand out to a lot of teachers.

Teachers should be paying attention to those companies that are responding to their needs. Teachers should follow them, look them up online, follow them on LinkedIn, sign up for notifications about job postings for those companies, because those are the companies that are really going to benefit from having that teacher. If that teacher can come in and say I've used this program, I've used this curriculum, I've used this platform, they are going to bring a whole different experience to that company than would somebody who's coming in learning it cold.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length. The full interview can be found here.